tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1873652322915407206.post2925075329620150754..comments2023-05-25T07:55:42.399-07:00Comments on Writing the Renaissance: Review: WATERMARK by Vanitha SankaranJulianne Douglashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10190332417986785920noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1873652322915407206.post-47839718322472593382010-04-20T13:46:56.823-07:002010-04-20T13:46:56.823-07:00There is a good book by Meg Bogin, THE WOMEN TROUB...There is a good book by Meg Bogin, THE WOMEN TROUBADOURS (Norton 1980), that presents the <i>trobairitz</i>'s verse, in the original Occitan, side-by-side with an English translation; the essays in the book discuss the women's history and their favored theme. Here, for example, is a stanza from a poem by Castelloza, a noblewoman from Le Puy born around 1200:<br /><br />God knows I should have had my fill of song--<br />the more I sing<br />the worse I fare in love,<br />and tears and cares<br />make me their home;<br />I've placed my heart and soul<br />in jeopardy,<br />and if I don't end this poem now<br />it will already be too long.<br /><br />Vanitha's character Auda participates in an established historical tradition, although she differs from her ancestresses by coming from the lower middle class. The <i>trobairitz</i> were usually women from the upper, landed classes, the very objects that the troubadours idolized in their poetry.Julianne Douglashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10190332417986785920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1873652322915407206.post-91514226669385034962010-04-20T13:10:21.256-07:002010-04-20T13:10:21.256-07:00But doesn't "Gypsy" refer to Egypt, ...But doesn't "Gypsy" refer to Egypt, and therefore the link with Arabs could be plausible - I don't know, just a question.<br />I find the idea of trobairitz, which I have never heard of before, fascinating.P. M. Doolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16673509230835222713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1873652322915407206.post-61589211423124458702010-04-19T10:36:05.383-07:002010-04-19T10:36:05.383-07:00Yes, Julianne, the Roma began arriving in France t...Yes, Julianne, the Roma began arriving in France towards the end of the 15th century (thus Esmeralda is not anachronistic in The Hunchback of Notre-Dame.)<br />True, it is sometimes tricky to find the right label :). The problem with "Gypsies" is that it is applied to the Roma, who, originating from India and speaking an Indo-European language, bear no relationship to the Arabs.<br />Maybe "Moor" would have been more evocative of a person of Arab descent, seen from a medieval European point of view. But this is difficult to tell as I have not read the novel.<br />In any case, this remark gave me the idea of a post on the Roma people and their representation in fiction.Catherine Delorshttp://blog.catherinedelors.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1873652322915407206.post-46937329751988950502010-04-19T08:52:45.160-07:002010-04-19T08:52:45.160-07:00Thanks for clarifying, Vanitha! Sometimes finding ...Thanks for clarifying, Vanitha! Sometimes finding a label that will be meaningful to all readers can be tricky.Julianne Douglashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10190332417986785920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1873652322915407206.post-37984020899098529902010-04-19T08:22:51.593-07:002010-04-19T08:22:51.593-07:00Thank you, Julianne, for your thoughtful review. ...Thank you, Julianne, for your thoughtful review. To answer your question, the "gypsies" in the story are Arabic people displaced from the fringes of the Crusades. Often called Travellers or nomads, these people are not directly related to the Roma but had a similar lifestyle. We struggled over what to call them for a variety of reasons.<br /><br />VanithaVanitha Sankaranhttp://www.vanithasankaran.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1873652322915407206.post-83408752641647572472010-04-19T06:47:25.809-07:002010-04-19T06:47:25.809-07:00I double-checked the text; that is the term she us...I double-checked the text; that is the term she uses. Did the Roma not arrive in France until later? Maybe Vanitha can stop by and address this.Julianne Douglashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10190332417986785920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1873652322915407206.post-60574944434158298942010-04-19T02:30:21.619-07:002010-04-19T02:30:21.619-07:00Gypsies in medieval France??
I know the Rom are o...Gypsies in medieval France?? <br />I know the Rom are often used as all-purpose plot movers regardless of era and setting, but this is a major anachronism.<br />I agree with you, Julianne: the cover is striking!Catherine Delorshttp://blog.catherinedelors.comnoreply@blogger.com